Red shoulder manucapuru

Information on another popular "flat and round fish" that most of us keep.

Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Tony Vaughan » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:16 pm

Hi Maria,

Mark has posted while I was typing this message so I need to review and respond accordingly. I was fixing a PS3 controller in the meantime :roll: :roll: :roll:

I'm not a fan of mixing wilds and domestics because wild fish are timid and domestics are more boisterous and that sets fish on different paths than often end in disaster, the timid fish getting stressed at feeding time and mating off so the more timid fish are the first to suffer.
The immune systems of wild v's domestic is a whole different ballgame that needs a new ball :wink:
I mention this as I have in the past had wild heckels in a tank with domestic angels thinking that the heckels were settled enough to be able to fend off smaller angels. This was not the case and I ended up losing all the heckels.

Heiko advocates wild angels in a tank with wild discus - I disagree with this but he claims that no other discus should be kept with wild heckels, I disagree with this also as I have in the past kept wild heckels with smaller angels and it ended with me losing all heckels. I have kept wild browns and heckel crosses with true heckels and had no problems. This is why I am happy to discuss pro's and con's of one's fish and results. I am still learning and will never claim to be an expert :nono: :nono: :nono:

A good qt regime is one thing, adding cross species is sometimes ok when the family is different but when the family is the same then some parasites or diseases are transferable.

HTH.

Best Regards.....................Tony
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Tony Vaughan » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:34 pm

Hi Mark,

If they are her last 3 then fewk that................tell her you'll offer £70 after all who wants to buy 3 fish from a stranger and risk losing all your stock :?: :question: :?:

See how all the angels fair out..............IMO I would add some small tetra's but choose carefully :wink: and maybe a nice pair of apisto's and possibly some nice cory's to keep the base clean. A tank like this should look awesome so I (along with Maria and others would be excited to see the results)

Best Regards....................Tony
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Mark Woodhouse » Tue Jan 10, 2012 5:46 pm

Quick update again!
Mt friend who is having the Discus is giving me his 2 smokey Angels and half a dozen rummy nose tetra's so that will be ok and i have half a dozen Brochis that i am keeping and they love the warmer water!
The woman had just emailed back and said that the Altums were cheap at £35 each and her offer still stands of £100 for the 3 but only until friday. I asked for some pics but she said she couldn't because they wouldn't show up because they were in black water. Also she says she has 5 now and not down to her last 3 as she had told me prviously so i'm a bit skeptical now. :nono:
I have emailed her back and asked where the other 2 have suddenly popped up from so i'll see what she says!
£35 sounds a bit too much seeing as i got mine for £22.95 from a shop and that is stunning!
So i'm stuck for a minute now, do i just get domestics and have my 1 pride and joy Altum or wait and find him a load of his own kind?!mmmmmmmmmmmmmm :roll:
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Tony Vaughan » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:33 pm

cool :wink:

I would like pics and more info before I agree to pay £35 each like size, how long she got them, why she selling them, what are the water parameters, what is she adding to the water to make it so dark, what are they eating, etc etc :question: :?: :question:
If you are happy with the response then offer her £100 for all 5 telling her that you are bound to lose one or two :wink:

If you are adamant on getting wilds then I would advise contacting David Lai of but be sure to mention me if you contact him.

If you want Tony Tan's F1's then contact Francis at but be sure to mention me if you contact him.

Also, if that lady is "in the trade" then there is a good chance that the same fish are advertised on Aquarist Classified's and if so there is more than likely a good chance that there are pics on the site as all retailers have pics :wink:

HTH.

Best Regards................Tony
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Mark Woodhouse » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:41 pm

Thanks Tony but this time i'm 1 step ahead!
She is in the trade and it was on the Aquarist Classified that i was looking at when i found them, there is 1 picture on there, she has a shop from what i can gather in Nottingham which is about 25 minute drive away.
The advert was put on in November, she says they are eating everything like flakes, pellets etc (which mine is eating).
The reason she has 2 extra is because she sold them and the person brought them back because he was getting rid of his tank, she wont take any less than 100 for the 3 she says.
I'm also 1 step again for the next bit as well, i emailed Chen's and he says he's not bothering with wild's anymore because of the losses, he says out of about 2000 that he's had, only about 10 or so have made it ok and still alive.
He says he's selling F1's now because of the ease of keeping compared to wild's and recommends them, the funny thing though if you can explain this to me please...He says they are slightly more expensive than the wild's?! :erm:
Anyway enough of my essay's again, i'm going now to have a long think about my future Angels, it's all very time consuming and confusing :roll:
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Tony Vaughan » Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:18 am

Sounds like your on the ball Mate :wink:

One thing I'd like to mention though. IMO Francis did not bring in wild angels in recent years.......he was the guy that I recommended for Tony Tan's F1's. David Lai is the guy that brings in wild and still does to this today if I am correct but as with wilds he's imports of altums can be sporadic.

If she is close then I would consider paying her a trip. I would not be willing to pay her asking price unless they were exceptional fish.................JMO

Best Regards..................Tony
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Mark Woodhouse » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:59 am

Hello Tony.
Francis has got back to me, and for 12 to 15 cm tall F1 Altums, he is asking £50 each!
I think i may go and ask the lady if she will give me a bit of discount if i buy all 5 off her, it still will be cheaper, my wifes let me have the car tomorrow and it's my day off so it looks like i will be going to look at some fish!
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Tony Vaughan » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:55 am

Hi Mark :welcome:

I would not pay Francis that for them...................JMO

Best of Luck with your trip and keep us posted on how it goes :wink:

Best Regards....................Tony
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Maria Ashton » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:39 pm

Tony - do you know where I might find the fish you've suggested as my searches aren't throwing up anything. Also are curled gills permanent? Bought four baby angels today, domestic, one has a curled gill. Waiting to see how it pans out as I don't want to take it back.
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Tony Vaughan » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:27 am

Hi Maria :welcome:

Did you try Michael Steimer from Discus World Holland :question: :?: :question:

Yes, IMO curled gills is a permanent condition and there can be a few causes like water quality or bacterial. The condition can start when the gill cover or operculum of a fish is soft and forming, before it is fully formed and tough.

Best of luck with the new additions, got any pics :?: :question: :?:

Best Regards..............Tony
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Mark Woodhouse » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:14 pm

Just jumping on this thread again, sorry Maria!
Been on the drive and i'm glad i did, The woman had loads of imported SA Cichlids including some very nice Peruvian Altums that i would have bought if i had had another tank!
The 5 Altums were in a tank on their own and were in stunning condition, no marks, ripped fins or anything and about 12cm minimum top to bottom. As soon as she went to that tank they came up ready to be fed and they scoffed like pigs, she said she had had them for 3 months without any problems and judging by the condition of the fish, she wasn't lying, she really knew how to look after her imports, all the tanks were mint!
She offered me 10% discount if i bought all 5 and my way of thinking was if a couple died later on, i would still have enough. I bought all 5 and took them home. My other Altum that was on his own was identical in looks in size and looks so he must have been in the same shipment i think, just delivered to another supplier.
15 minutes in their new home and they were eating and swimming around together as if they had always been in the tank and i can't believe how nice they are. They have a red tinge that can clearly be seen in the tail and dorsal and anal fins that looks great when they hit the light right, it's really weird because you look at colourful and don't really get that excited by how much colour they have but a boring coloured Angel with just a tinge of colour and it's amazing, i can't really explain it but you must know what i'm talking about Tony, the subtle things!
Anyway, hopefully my tank should be here withing a fortning now so i can start filming my babies!
Cheers and sorry again Maria!
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Mark Woodhouse » Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:20 pm

Sorry about a few words missing in the last thread, i couldn't edit it once done!...I meant to say about the colourful Discus but for some reason i must have just thought the word and not actually have typed it in!
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Maria Ashton » Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:36 am

no its nice to read.

I have taken pics of my new additions but cant seem to upload on here or anywhere else :( I worked in IT for 9 years and am normally quite competent on a computer
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Tony Vaughan » Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:45 am

Hi Mark,

Good to hear you are sorted :wink: although I still maintain that they are not wild just from what you explain and my knowledge. Not doubting you but I'm a guy who has kept Altums and I'm one who believes that once I see something with my own eyes I have a better chance of gauging things..................JMO :thumbsup:

Maria,

If you upload the pics to photobucket or a similar site then you could be able to copy the code into a post. Other than that if you wish you can mail them to me and I can upload them :?: :question: :?:

Best Regards to you both....................Tony
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Re: Red shoulder manucapuru

Postby Mark Woodhouse » Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:24 pm

Well Tony, once i have my video up, you'll be able to see them, they are beautiful.
It would be ok if you could use Tapatalk on this site like others, no need to use photobucket, just send off the phone and job done, photo's in an instant after taking them!
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